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 WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION

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PostSubject: @ jaydeep   Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:29 pm

well jaydeep a very important point raised by you....i will come to the avionics but let me first comment upon the radar of the MiG-35

As we all know the The 250 kg NIIP Bars-29 'Barsik' is a development of the original Bars-30MKI, intended for the MiG-29. With a relatively low power output of 1 kW, the radar can detect a 5 sq.m RCS target at 100-120 km, lock on to the same at 85 km. The radar can track-while-scan 15 targets and engage 4 of them simultaneously. As with the original, this set combines electronic scanning with a mechanical drive.


A helicopter can stay still mid-air. But a fighter plane? No way. The laws of physics and jet propulsion don’t allow that.

Russian engineers have achieved just that

moreover fyodorov says that Indian pilots at the air show were impressed with the plane and its new technology, but "it all depends on what we ask for in terms of avionics, weaponry and of course service support," said an IAF test pilot. Conceded Fyodorov, "IAF has very stiff requirements.
We are willing to integrate any system, as the user wants it." MiG officials expect India to ask for Israeli Elta radars, display components from France and weaponry of Russian origin. "We have not frozen the technology specifications," said Fyodorov.


now for the advantages of the MiG-35 radar

Advantages of MiG-35 radar:
Small weight (220 kg) when range of detection of air targets (RCS 5м2) is as follows:

FHS look-up air target – exceeds 120 km, RHS look-up target- exceeds 60km;

FHS look-down target - exceeds 120 km, RHS look down target - exceeds 60km

2. Coverage zone: in azimuth ± 85°, in elevation ±56° /- 40°.

3. Reliability - 150 hours

now for the specification picture of the radar











if this is not enough for IAF then i am afraid nothing else will be


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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:15 pm

i think the eurofighter should win this competition. Its used by the British and the Germans.its considered equivalent to the sukhoi 30 and the F22 . it will also create jobs for the youth of our country.the best alternatives are the super hornet and the MiG
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PostSubject: final verdict   Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:56 pm

guys as i am telling from start eurofighter or rafael and here is a link which shows why iaf will really consider this although its a bit hypothetical situation but assesement is done by an analyst so u can see why we need this planes desparately as iaf chief had already stated that mmrca will be place near india-china border..
http://asiandefence.blogspot.com/2011/01/second-indo-chinese-war-2013-2015.html
hope this scenario do not come true for atleast 15 yrs or so....
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:31 pm

No need to discuss more.
OVT is finalised.
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:00 am

even i would go wid eurofighter typhoon for the following reasons


f-16- no scope for further development + pakistan has similar aircraft.
f-18- potentially a very good aircraft but its reduced range is a matter of concern .besides no significant development is expected because it is going to be replaced by f-35 s by 2025.
mig -35- buying this aircraft could make the airforce depend a lot on a single supplier besides there is a lot of doubt about its AESA radar.
JAS gripen- doesnt have a good weapons payload or range for deep strike operations. GE engine so ToT problems could arise due to the presence of two US aircraft already in the competition .

dassault rafale are technologically quite ahead of all dese aircraft like both can supercruise. eurofighter typhoon has thrust vectoring whereas rafale has significantly reduced radar signature. my pick is eurofighter typhoon because five of the best airforces in the world are operating this aircraft. it has just been inducted so a very large scope for modernisation and gives us a significant political advantage because it is going to create jobs in five countries .,

the above analysis has been done without taking the cost factor . if the cost factor is taken into consideration all the aircraft come at par because rafale and eurofighter typhoon are pretty much costlier than the other aircraft.
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PostSubject: hi   Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:17 am

@sukhadiya.bhavin:whats ovt
@kartik92:IAF chief specifically said that cost wont be a fact and technology will be given preference ,yes they come costly but ef is a dog fighter and ground bomber too with less radar crosssection hence 2 plane wrap up in one so its a cheap deal in my way...even the mki is nt a ground bomber plus its a huge plane with large radar cross section so we need a technology superior plane.
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:04 am

OVTs r finalised by our DONKEYs frm MoD, Ths not my dicision. Things r more political ths days.
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PostSubject: "Americans think about our Su-30MKI...."   Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:34 pm

ukschauhan87 wrote:
well this video shows what the americans think of our su-30mki and their opinion about the plane during red flag exercise.
please give your comment regarding this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-CRINeb9_A
now about the mmrca as i have posted earlier that mmrca is quite a run for 200 aircraft that makes it easy to say which will likely win the cometition and the reasons or my theory(ofcourse suggestion are appreciated)
1.Saab Gripen will become the obivious choice as it is the only aircraft along with F-16IN which is the cheapest and suits all the rfp terms.but i dnt think MOD will go for FG-IN until and unless they have lost their mind , not the sole reason that pakistan operates them but more like it is almost 3 decades old platform and when f-35 comes into picture there will be no future for it .Now regarding Gripen IN it is not only the cheapest but saab builds one of the best fighters in the world and their system are one of the best plus they are willing to more than the offset clause .another reason that supports saab is that not only it passed leh tests but also it is the aircraft which is cost least in running daily sorties and can fly from a highway and it takes 10 min to fully arm refuel to fly again which is very handy at times of war(hope that never comes not even with paki as war never bring prosperity).so i can say that MOD could go for 100-126 gripen because it cost less and we can not leave the money factor because that factor is above all diplomatic and strategic factor however anyone says different.
2.now for the remaining 80-100 aircrafts ,first we can rule out mig-35 on the grounds of numerous reason(1.it is still underdeveloped and the first aircraft can only be rolled out till 2015 which is the best probable date hence iaf will not like that 2.even the initial cost of mig 35 is least but the life long cost is always high and the most important reason is the iaf requirement for western technology. 3.their was speculation and buff on net that before mmrca MOD called its russian counterpart and asked them not to participate ,hence it shows they never wanted a russian fighter )
now for french rafael as we know we signed a 2.3bn contact for mid-life upgradation for mirage -2000 which almost is equal to buy 50 planes .but the most important thing is the french is more intrested in the 40 planes to sell which the strategic nuclear command wants for its own 2squadrant even sarkhosy once told of willing to supply 40 planes in short time although nothing official came into picture till yet and also the remaing 2 planes are better than rafael.
now the main topic the great rummble who will then take the price for the next 100 uncle sam or EU.
well if we see the attitude of present government and MOD uncle sam is better placed than EU but as i say our PM is on europe toour when all the heat had started about the mmrca .even once indian diplomat told in in itlay that typhoon will win farao but cant be sure as per which i see the iaf wants the typhoon they will never like F-18 because they will not like that more than 1/10 of their fighter aircraft will totally depend upon americans as it will pose grave danger to internal security , so eurofighter is well placed here although they cant be trusted 100% but when it comes to access risk and mind it friends risks are always accessed they have low percentage than uncle sam and also they will offer more technology then usa .Plus EDAS is one of the consultant for tejas mk-2 .
hence this 100 aircraft will be the one where most of the stretching will take place .in my opinion eurofighter should win cheers cheers cheers cheers
post your thoughts about my assessment will look forward to.

lol!
ha.. ha.. That was not an official USAF comment about Red Flag. That was a retarded press meeting arranged by F-15 pilot Fernof(not in that Red Flag exercise) after Indian Air Force charged that combat exercise by 9/10 victory over USAF.
Even their F-15s were locked by Indian Mig-21(bison)s (high turing radius). After Fernof's press meeting, USAF declined all the foul arguments and comments by him.
F-15s are no match for any Su-27 in the world. Good paint work and Hollywood are the power of US Army and their highly advanced technology gimmick weapons.


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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:07 pm

@kartik- bro, u like EF thts true. My mind say RAFALE, some1 like F-serise. But govt. won't ask opinion. Politicians & beurocrats will finaliy.

Sources - tells just 1 option >MIG-35 OVT
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PostSubject: hi   Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

@sukhadiya.bhavin
friend i can give you many reason why mig-35 is not going to win mmrca i have given them in my before posts too....
pros:1.russian aircraft with two side thrust vectoring and the problem in mig29 producing tail smoke is rectified here.
2.A cheap contender .
3.russian diplomatic muscle.
cons:1.based on mig 29 aircraft that is of the soviet era.
2.according to reports the engine do not have the muscle required by iaf as these will be positioned near china border.
3.iaf do not want to place all the eggs in one basket and as our pm had told this will be a political decision hence will be used as a political leverage and that cant be seen in favour of mig as we already had given many orders to russiand like fgfa and this will not change anything.
4.IAF long dier need to acquire state of the art western tech can not be fulfilled by it.
5.according to mig reports the first aircraft can only be rolled out after 2014 in which case iaf cannot induct them before 2017-18 as they want to and the past experience shows with mig that it will keep on growing and growing.
6.although its intial cost is less but life time cost is much more than others.
7.its a large aircraft when compare to other ,that means a large radar cross section.
8.its not a great bomber aircraft hence lacks the multi role type of aircraft which is only fulfilled by rafael and euro fighter.
you can find more on it this link
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mirage-2000s-withdrawn-as-indias-mrca-fighter-competition-changes-01989/
so now what you think......????
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:05 pm

bro, kartik
as i told u, i thnk many things. I hv clarifid and justified tht my vote goes to RAFALE.
Neither BABUs and DONKEY POLITICIANS dont ask u n me nor thy gv importnc to FET reports. Thy hv thier own policies.
So, as per old game > WAIT & WATCH.
OVTs r finalized. Even I also kno a FRESH base whr thy will be deployed. I won't say more.
So lets see what happens.
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:00 pm

hey, wht happened ??

people are on leave ?????

discussions suddenly stopped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :?: :?: :?: :!: :!: :!:



:flag: :bball:
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:37 am

Hi,
I think India must buy F 16 I ( Sufa ) and F 18 SH both . India must use their brain and go for US aircrafts. But only 126 , no more. All trouble we got in past that is because not buying US arms . All thoes countries who buy US arms they never got any troubles like India.

One more thing ,
India must not upgrade Mirage 2000 and Jaguars, I was trying to figherout all aircraft deals took place in 2010/2011 . I got one good news -- that is few weeks ago Thailand got brand new Gripens , normal ones not the NG (which is offered in MRCA to India) . The price was US $ 14 millions each . I got this price on web--timawa.net,
India want to spend few billions and after spending that--- what will we get , the aircrafts will be old any way. Here if we spend the same - nearly the same amount we can buy normal Gripens new aircrafts . With full TOT . Sounds good or not.

Third thing please do not buy UK arms , they always creat dramas for spares .
Avoid BAE also , their after sale serivece is not good, we face that in past .
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:14 am

Again i say RAFALE.javascript:emoticonp(':)')

This is only chance for India to get a leap ahead in defence aviation technology.javascript:emoticonp(':cheers:')

Okey, Gripen offers ToT but many sub system is originated from UK/US.javascript:emoticonp(':evil:')

So, Rafale now has AESA from Thales (RB2E).

Also, Snecma has its facility in india to repair and overhaul the engines.

F-16 / F-18 have no future, and most important >> "U. S. origin", we have past experiences, it is one of the top "Un-trustworthy" nations in the world.

We have been into a long relationship with France in many fields. For Nuclear technology, Submarines, Aircrafts and many more..

Frenchs are the pioneers of aeronautics.

So, Not need to say anything more.......

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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:31 am

Good Day,
I think you are a fan of France , is that right .
But I am just talking about what will be good at this time .
Few points ......1)You said US you can tot trust . OK. now how come you trust the French . They do sell nearly all weapons to Pakistan like US. Infact they want to sell arms to China but US stop them not to do so.
2) You said no future for F16 / F 18. Good , at this time only France use and makes Rafals, if no other cuntry buy them they already decided that no more fighter air craft in future.
Whoes future is good or bad you think now. One more thing we all know that future war planes will be un man aircrafts .


In this world no one is your friend. All about money only . What USA or France .
In past we never deal with US , France always trys to get all thoes who do not buy weapons from USA. France will never sell rafals to Singapore , Australia , Canada , why .
Any thing more .....
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:44 am

Hi,
I think India will go for F 18 SH. Thay have to . At this time this is the only way .
But only 126 air craft no more . Do not upgrade Jaguars . May be buy few Gripens . with TOT. Do not upgrade Mirage 2000. Just buy few Rafales with TOT .
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:01 pm


@ Few points ......1) You said US you can not trust USA ..........

Dear first thing i want to clear, i m not favoring anyone on "MY FAVORITE" bases.javascript:emoticonp(':)')

But Indian Govt. should think about geopolitical & diplomatic situation in future.
US is supplying the same type platforms to PAK.
Track record of USA in past is not good. they have favored the nation-they want to "USE" as war front....Examples is PAK for Afghan.

I also dont say tht F16 or F18 are inferior fighters, even i say each fighter in M-MRCA contest is finest of all types.
F-16/18 are the best & proven combat platforms. They have excellent dynamics, EWS & APG-radars and many more.
But USA is not supplying with ToT. We cant use full capability of the equipment. I.e. take APG-AESA, in this we have to take their service to configure the radars, these means we have to put our strategies before them. This is somewhat like "They are selling LOCKs and keeping keys with own". USA dont offer full ToT, Where France is offering. This is the chance to learn technologies & run a leap ahead in current defence technologies.

US has always supplied weapons with reduced capabilities than their own. They want that we sign CISMOA agreement, which is about interoperatibility of equipments. This will lead to situations , in which if they want to use our self against any of their enemy like China or Russia, we "have to" operate likewise. Note that where US has sold its weapons, they have created the Military outpost nearby. for example Pakistan, Singapore, Australia....& they operates via them in that area. US wants same situation in Kashmir, they want to use it as it's own base in South Asia.(U might have learnt story of Two-Cats & a Monkey )
In future US will pressure to sign other treaties with Pak or its own self. So it not a fair deal, though they are having pretty aircrafts in their portfolio.

@ You said no future for F16 / F 18. Good , ........ >>> I dont say this >>> Defence analysts say this.

@ In this world no one is your friend. All about money only . What USA or France . >>>> Thats ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

>>>and finally about Eurofighter>> Its a nice technology package, and feasible for us (obviously not on price front.). Though EADS/ CASSIDIAN have offer us to be a technology partner in EF, there is British-Factor. We have very-very bad past experience with Harriers. During Post-Pokhran time and Kargil time we were short of spares, ( even also today we are short of ), we have to ground many no. of aircrafts. No problems with other EF-EAS/CASSIDIAN technology patners, but, if there would be No-British-Factor, i would give priority.

@In past we never deal with US , France always trys to get all thoes who do not buy weapons from USA. France will never sell rafals to Singapore , Australia , Canada , why .>>>>> Bcoz As i have mentioned above.
USA wants to win this big deal bcoz their Economical situation is very bad, Obama came India only for this purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:54 am

Hi .
I think you are right. But Rafales are too costly , you think it will be fine to maintain 126 fighters ?
I will say just buy 40 or 50 Rafales . It will be OK in turms of cost .
This is the time for India to be with USA . We have to maintain that also . The TIME got changed and we have to change as per that .
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:58 pm

@aayush:
bro, we hv operated wth french tech. We hv maint set up for same supplier. Th r s TurboMECA-SNECMA hving MRO facility in Bnglor. We r also dvlping our engins kaveri&shakti wth ths compny. Its maint cost s not as much as othr comparable fightrs. If we buy boeing or LM hardwr we may get problm of spares, whr here we r geting full tot, w cn mfg. spares.

U r absltly r8 tht we shld be wth US. But not in terms of military deals.
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:40 am

ukschauhan87 wrote:
well this video shows what the americans think of our su-30mki and their opinion about the plane during red flag exercise.
please give your comment regarding this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-CRINeb9_A
now about the mmrca as i have posted earlier that mmrca is quite a run for 200 aircraft that makes it easy to say which will likely win the cometition and the reasons or my theory(ofcourse suggestion are appreciated)
1.Saab Gripen will become the obivious choice as it is the only aircraft along with F-16IN which is the cheapest and suits all the rfp terms.but i dnt think MOD will go for FG-IN until and unless they have lost their mind , not the sole reason that pakistan operates them but more like it is almost 3 decades old platform and when f-35 comes into picture there will be no future for it .Now regarding Gripen IN it is not only the cheapest but saab builds one of the best fighters in the world and their system are one of the best plus they are willing to more than the offset clause .another reason that supports saab is that not only it passed leh tests but also it is the aircraft which is cost least in running daily sorties and can fly from a highway and it takes 10 min to fully arm refuel to fly again which is very handy at times of war(hope that never comes not even with paki as war never bring prosperity).so i can say that MOD could go for 100-126 gripen because it cost less and we can not leave the money factor because that factor is above all diplomatic and strategic factor however anyone says different.
2.now for the remaining 80-100 aircrafts ,first we can rule out mig-35 on the grounds of numerous reason(1.it is still underdeveloped and the first aircraft can only be rolled out till 2015 which is the best probable date hence iaf will not like that 2.even the initial cost of mig 35 is least but the life long cost is always high and the most important reason is the iaf requirement for western technology. 3.their was speculation and buff on net that before mmrca MOD called its russian counterpart and asked them not to participate ,hence it shows they never wanted a russian fighter )
now for french rafael as we know we signed a 2.3bn contact for mid-life upgradation for mirage -2000 which almost is equal to buy 50 planes .but the most important thing is the french is more intrested in the 40 planes to sell which the strategic nuclear command wants for its own 2squadrant even sarkhosy once told of willing to supply 40 planes in short time although nothing official came into picture till yet and also the remaing 2 planes are better than rafael.
now the main topic the great rummble who will then take the price for the next 100 uncle sam or EU.
well if we see the attitude of present government and MOD uncle sam is better placed than EU but as i say our PM is on europe toour when all the heat had started about the mmrca .even once indian diplomat told in in itlay that typhoon will win farao but cant be sure as per which i see the iaf wants the typhoon they will never like F-18 because they will not like that more than 1/10 of their fighter aircraft will totally depend upon americans as it will pose grave danger to internal security , so eurofighter is well placed here although they cant be trusted 100% but when it comes to access risk and mind it friends risks are always accessed they have low percentage than uncle sam and also they will offer more technology then usa .Plus EDAS is one of the consultant for tejas mk-2 .
hence this 100 aircraft will be the one where most of the stretching will take place .in my opinion eurofighter should win cheers cheers cheers cheers
post your thoughts about my assessment will look forward to.



Hi,
Gripen is good for sure.
But there are few doubt about Typhoon
1) Air to Ground performance.
2) Spares -- too hard to get them.
3) Got backed by BAE -- the bad record for BAE HAWK trainer.
4) most recently Government of India refused L&T - EADS proposal. That indicate what is in their mind.

I think RAFALE will be good with Gripen .
Again GOI is trying alot for old frame US fighters at less price . I think US is not ready But US is not ready . If at the end US will may get ready , - again the picture will some different . At this point India may go for Rafales . But not sure about Gripens . It will be good if they go for both .
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PostSubject: Re: WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION   Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:14 am

aayush wrote:
ukschauhan87 wrote:
well this video shows what the americans think of our su-30mki and their opinion about the plane during red flag exercise.
please give your comment regarding this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-CRINeb9_A
now about the mmrca as i have posted earlier that mmrca is quite a run for 200 aircraft that makes it easy to say which will likely win the cometition and the reasons or my theory(ofcourse suggestion are appreciated)
1.Saab Gripen will become the obivious choice as it is the only aircraft along with F-16IN which is the cheapest and suits all the rfp terms.but i dnt think MOD will go for FG-IN until and unless they have lost their mind , not the sole reason that pakistan operates them but more like it is almost 3 decades old platform and when f-35 comes into picture there will be no future for it .Now regarding Gripen IN it is not only the cheapest but saab builds one of the best fighters in the world and their system are one of the best plus they are willing to more than the offset clause .another reason that supports saab is that not only it passed leh tests but also it is the aircraft which is cost least in running daily sorties and can fly from a highway and it takes 10 min to fully arm refuel to fly again which is very handy at times of war(hope that never comes not even with paki as war never bring prosperity).so i can say that MOD could go for 100-126 gripen because it cost less and we can not leave the money factor because that factor is above all diplomatic and strategic factor however anyone says different.
2.now for the remaining 80-100 aircrafts ,first we can rule out mig-35 on the grounds of numerous reason(1.it is still underdeveloped and the first aircraft can only be rolled out till 2015 which is the best probable date hence iaf will not like that 2.even the initial cost of mig 35 is least but the life long cost is always high and the most important reason is the iaf requirement for western technology. 3.their was speculation and buff on net that before mmrca MOD called its russian counterpart and asked them not to participate ,hence it shows they never wanted a russian fighter )
now for french rafael as we know we signed a 2.3bn contact for mid-life upgradation for mirage -2000 which almost is equal to buy 50 planes .but the most important thing is the french is more intrested in the 40 planes to sell which the strategic nuclear command wants for its own 2squadrant even sarkhosy once told of willing to supply 40 planes in short time although nothing official came into picture till yet and also the remaing 2 planes are better than rafael.
now the main topic the great rummble who will then take the price for the next 100 uncle sam or EU.
well if we see the attitude of present government and MOD uncle sam is better placed than EU but as i say our PM is on europe toour when all the heat had started about the mmrca .even once indian diplomat told in in itlay that typhoon will win farao but cant be sure as per which i see the iaf wants the typhoon they will never like F-18 because they will not like that more than 1/10 of their fighter aircraft will totally depend upon americans as it will pose grave danger to internal security , so eurofighter is well placed here although they cant be trusted 100% but when it comes to access risk and mind it friends risks are always accessed they have low percentage than uncle sam and also they will offer more technology then usa .Plus EDAS is one of the consultant for tejas mk-2 .
hence this 100 aircraft will be the one where most of the stretching will take place .in my opinion eurofighter should win cheers cheers cheers cheers
post your thoughts about my assessment will look forward to.



Hi,
Gripen is good for sure.
But there are few doubt about Typhoon
1) Air to Ground performance.
2) Spares -- too hard to get them.
3) Got backed by BAE -- the bad record for BAE HAWK trainer.
4) most recently Government of India refused L&T - EADS proposal. That indicate what is in their mind.

I think RAFALE will be good with Gripen . Rafales come with life time support , when they offer first - at that time it supposed to come with life time support .
Again GOI is trying alot for old frame US fighters at less price . I think US is not ready at this stage . May be at the end US may get ready - again the picture will some different . At this point India may go for Rafales . But not sure about Gripens . It will be good if they go for both .
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