WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD WIN THE MMRCA COMPETITION

my vote is for eurofighter typhoon.
it is not only the best aircraft but also a better technical as well as political decision.
hope to see eurofighter in tricolor

we all know that the americans will win the MMRCA deal........it's done & dusted

if india dosen't buy from uSA then uncle sam will stop the delivery of GE-404 & GE-414 engines for tejas

sad but true

mee toooooo wid EFT!!!!! expensive but worth to spend!

the mmrca is going to be a bid for 200 combat aircraft yuppy......
read the below link..
http://asiandefence.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-air-force-to-purchase-200-mrcas.html

post your replies

i think this is due to american pressure ........ america will never allow india to buy sphisticated fighters & that is why they have blackmailed india to buy 200 downgraded fighters from them.....

honestly we should go for the MiG-35

indian wrote:

honestly we should go for the MiG-35

Boss.. you should read the problems the NAVY is facing with MiG29K. The Russians ..ahemm.. I mean the Mig co. is trying to milk the contract to the maximum by utilizing the loopholes in it. I don't know why our babus are unable to make watertight contracts after so many scams and scandals. Just look at the recent hawk deal.. iaf had to reorder a fresh lot with a new contract because they found lots of loopholes in the earlier contract.. In this respect the Russians have gained a notoriety..

Well!! I am comfortable with both eurocanards. They have lots of potential in them.

eurofighter will be a threat to pakistan.......so will be the rafale

pakistan needs J-10 to counter the MMRCA .....a chinese friend once told me that he J-10 is unlike any other fighter that the west has seen from china.......it's more advanced than the F-18

so pakistan's strategy would be to get J-10 s from china.. that will put off the indians.....

Dear my opinion say >> India should choose Dassault Rafale or SAAB Gripen. If not so, then MIG is the only option.

Reasons are, Dassault & SAAB offer full technology transfer, Means Grass root access to the technologies provided with the aircraft. This leads to reduce the dependency to a Good extent.

Already we have operated French Technology earlier. Rafale is built over the same kind of platform. We don't have to do more changes to our infrastructure.

For SAAB Gripen, This product is design to meet low operating costs, less maintenance and offer good PLM (Product Lifecycle Management). Also, Gripen consist of world's most hightech computer related/ EW suits stuffs.

Both are Twin-engined.

Both are from countries don't favor current diplomatic stream of USA & UK.In short >>> Politically-Diplomatically 'Neutral' .

If our BABU's don't favour these TWO above....then MIGs are the only GOOD option. There is no need to right more about MIGs.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

WHY NOT TO CHOOSE US MILITARY STUFFS?

Reason is Diplomatic. We have very bad experience with Hawker Co. UK for our Harrier Squardens. B'coz currently we are suffering from shortage of spares & other technical support. This possibility is more stronger with USA.
In-short >>>>> You can't Trust them.

F-16/ F-18 / Typhoon are pretty good products but there is no full access of Technologies. And you can't predict attitude of a selfish country like USA & UK. We may suffer like "Harrier-experience".

friend GRIPEN has only one engine.

else i completely agree..

still my mind says we should get EFT, like gripen it also has one of the most EW suit, also very advanced avionics...It has also proved its ability to supercruise, also we will get chance to work with EADS on future versions of EFT, so making us technology partners. who knows we might need their help with AMCA or for any upcoming projects?? also it will be a bit easy for EJ200 to find its way on LCA MK II... and if flexibility or upgradability of the existing architecture is also a criteria then MiG 35 is at the top, without any doubt.....

well this video shows what the americans think of our su-30mki and their opinion about the plane during red flag exercise.
please give your comment regarding this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-CRINeb9_A
now about the mmrca as i have posted earlier that mmrca is quite a run for 200 aircraft that makes it easy to say which will likely win the cometition and the reasons or my theory(ofcourse suggestion are appreciated)
1.Saab Gripen will become the obivious choice as it is the only aircraft along with F-16IN which is the cheapest and suits all the rfp terms.but i dnt think MOD will go for FG-IN until and unless they have lost their mind , not the sole reason that pakistan operates them but more like it is almost 3 decades old platform and when f-35 comes into picture there will be no future for it .Now regarding Gripen IN it is not only the cheapest but saab builds one of the best fighters in the world and their system are one of the best plus they are willing to more than the offset clause .another reason that supports saab is that not only it passed leh tests but also it is the aircraft which is cost least in running daily sorties and can fly from a highway and it takes 10 min to fully arm refuel to fly again which is very handy at times of war(hope that never comes not even with paki as war never bring prosperity).so i can say that MOD could go for 100-126 gripen because it cost less and we can not leave the money factor because that factor is above all diplomatic and strategic factor however anyone says different.
2.now for the remaining 80-100 aircrafts ,first we can rule out mig-35 on the grounds of numerous reason(1.it is still underdeveloped and the first aircraft can only be rolled out till 2015 which is the best probable date hence iaf will not like that 2.even the initial cost of mig 35 is least but the life long cost is always high and the most important reason is the iaf requirement for western technology. 3.their was speculation and buff on net that before mmrca MOD called its russian counterpart and asked them not to participate ,hence it shows they never wanted a russian fighter )
now for french rafael as we know we signed a 2.3bn contact for mid-life upgradation for mirage -2000 which almost is equal to buy 50 planes .but the most important thing is the french is more intrested in the 40 planes to sell which the strategic nuclear command wants for its own 2squadrant even sarkhosy once told of willing to supply 40 planes in short time although nothing official came into picture till yet and also the remaing 2 planes are better than rafael.
now the main topic the great rummble who will then take the price for the next 100 uncle sam or EU.
well if we see the attitude of present government and MOD uncle sam is better placed than EU but as i say our PM is on europe toour when all the heat had started about the mmrca .even once indian diplomat told in in itlay that typhoon will win but cant be sure as per which i see the iaf wants the typhoon they will never like F-18 because they will not like that more than 1/10 of their fighter aircraft will totally depend upon americans as it will pose grave danger to internal security , so eurofighter is well placed here although they cant be trusted 100% but when it comes to access risk and mind it friends risks are always accessed they have low percentage than uncle sam and also they will offer more technology then usa .Plus EDAS is one of the consultant for tejas mk-2 .
hence this 100 aircraft will be the one where most of the stretching will take place .in my opinion eurofighter should win
post your thoughts about my assessment will look forward to.

good one bro!
still i think that Rafale is as capable as others are. Also rafale has got pretty goor package with it, remarkable SPECTRA, and active radar cancellation ensure better survivability and partial stealth. And also none of us knows the real specifications or the real inside out of the plane, as all we are commenting upon is an open source data. also Dassault has promised the fastest deliveries amongst all the war birds, that too as fast as in 7-8 years. So it indeed is a good choice. the competition for me is now between rafale and EFT, reason is both of them being derived from the single project, have similar characteristics (rafale has greater payload), both of them have equal capabilities, also very great scope of modernization and upgrades. both of these crafts are yet to attain maturization, and we can play a crucial role in that process. Both of the aircraft if cleared through MMRCA contract will ensure complementry benifits with mirage and LCA MK II deals resp.

Gripen is also a very nice bird, infact one of my favourite, but it is a bit light weight than all others. Instead of going for gripen it would be better if we wait for next 4-5 years and let the LCA MK II come. it will be very similar to current gripen (though we will need a lot of israeli or western support in avionics in order to match SAAB's avionics)...

if we please USA by purchasing F-16/18 then that will manifest into decrease in open arms support to PAK (dunno bout under the table deals).. and if we dont then we might see PAk getting a watered down F-35...if we dont buy SAAB, then mostly JF-17 will get VIXEN.. if we dont pass french may be they will clear the JF17 upgrades deal (for now pak has gone with chinese avionics, but who wont accept french suits when u r having chinese ones).

@jaydeep::jaydeep regarding gripen underweight is that mmrca contract is for a medium combat jet which is actually only 2 f -16IN and saab gripen all other are not in this category it was issued to replace or complement mirage -2000 for which iaf is very satisfied .
jaydeep india already had given french 2.3bn order for mid-life upgradation of mirage -2000 and signed a contract for 6 nuclear reactor for 25bn recently so there is no chance that french are going to upset india even if they dont get mmrca and yes we trust french bcoz even when we were imposed sanctions after nuclear explosion they supplied us the spare parts for mirage so ofcourse rafael has a very bright chance but rafael had never been selected as the winner in any competition which is a drawback and french only operates it.and france already had announced that they think of india as a strategic partner and so will not supply arms to pakistan plus they dont believe that pakistan had got enough foreign reserve to pay for arms so they made their choice.
but you should know this too that rafael also have many us components in it,hence uncle sam has a leverage everywhere.
now your assessment for saab to supply arms to pak is more or less very firm if they do not get a piece of cake the main reason is this that pakistan do not have got the money even to but f-16 in cash they depend on us so called funds , so ef and rafael are so out of question ,saab is the only company which can supply cheap and best system to pak which they can somehow afford and pay for,although they are not supplying any weapons as not to diminish their market in india because for 20-30 years india will invest almost 100 bn on arms purchase and we should not forget that saab yearly bussiness all over world is less than 2bn and a bussiness like mmrca is so lucarative that they will do anything plus they are the only company which is ready to shift all the aircraft manufacturing line to india itself with local partnership that will be very much handy as we do not have to buy the arms offshore it will be manufactured in india itself.hence u see indian government can not ignore saab completely as they are the real player who can help pak to build its capability since us this way or other helps pak not with its best tech but yes it does and india will not like sab assisting pak or china that will pose a grave danger in a manner.for saab even if they get a order for 100 aircraft its will be a deal of more than 30bn$ if we take sapares mid life upgrade and all so they can not afford to loose.
but their also lies a great logic my friend when you fly a sukhoi-mki or eu or rafael like heavy planes your daily sortie cost is almost $40,000(or 4000 am bit confused but am sure u get the picture)but when you fly a plane like f-16 or saab gripen their cost is less than half of the cost of above , so you see no country can have all heavy aircraft no matter how strong their economy is for eg.usa since you can see they till today fly f-16 bcoz of its low flight cost and it solves the purpose well they can change it with high class aircraft but they dont bcoz they know the importance of it and so do the iaf.
we already will have 250-300 sukhoi-mki and 250-fgfa ,65-mig-29 that almost 600 heavy fighter in our inventory and if we have 200 mmrca heavy plane you can see the weight of 800 heavy class fighter in iaf inventory that will be too huge to maintain and operate so iaf i think will go for a plane which is eeasy to operate and cheap too ..
so my view
126-gripen In
76- typhoon or rafael or f-18(although slim chance but cant ignore uncle sam they play hard ball really hard)
hope you like it...will look forward for you reply....

you are right, but see what i am trying to put is, as it is we will be producing LCA MK II then why to invest on the similar product?? instead we can focus more on LCA MK II and induct it as the light weight fighter. and the upgradation deal for Mirage 2000s is still in the negotiation phase, and it will cleared instantaneosly if we go for rafale, also it wont be a surprise if we see HUGE cost cuttings to the current estimates. french have always been our close allies, so there is absolutely no doubt about their products and trust.. but it MAY happen (just a possibility) that they clear the JF-17 upgrade deal.. why i am supporting ef and rafale (even after gripen being my personal favourite) is, we surely going to need GREAT help for LCA MK II/Naval variant and if not LCA then AMCA for sure. and a western (EU) technological partner always ensures cutting edge technology without many (or any) harsh policies unlike USA.

As it is we are collaborating with Russians for FGFA's 5th gen platform, so why not to collaborate with say BAE, EADS, Dassault for AMCA to get a whole together new design! well but while searching i found something that i din know,
SAAB has also started working on their 5th gen design naming it as Generic Future Fighter Aircraft..
http://robotpig.net/aerospace-news/saab-new-stealth-fighter-program-_1827
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-10706.html

and for me, i would love to see
126 EFT or Rafale + 70 odd MiG35s!!

btw does the number 126 include Trainers????(or simulators)

yes a contract such big comes with simulators and other training equipments

ok... i dunno how but we had not included simulators for C-130 in the original deal, that was added later by LM with some extra cost(ofc very expensive)..

you are right, many of the decisions are vastly dependant on government policies, so when IAF submits their evaluation report, their job is almost over. they will shortlist 2-3 birds, and then the dicision rests in hands of MoD and president. btw did you guys see a very striking thing happening in last month? Obama visited, he said he is here to create jobs in USA, and needs help from Indian friends, so we said yes boss and signed deals worth 45,ooo crores. just after that Sarcozy visited, he didnt demand anything special, and we signed deals worth 90,000 crores! and yesterday we traded 16-17,000 crores with our chinese so called friends(ofc they did not include any of the defence product.). this clearly says that USA indeed has failed to promise us... The best or the most promising offers are given by French... For me these are signal showing STRONG presence of Rafale in MoD and IN GOV.

i see no point in purchasing F-18, we already have MKIs specialized for that role, so why to go for just same aircraft.Also F-18 is very sluggish, it is a bit underpowered, so it lacks the agility which MiG35, EFT, Rafale have. if we go for rafale it will bridge the gap between medium and heavy fighters, and will also come up advanced technology with complete ToT, unlike USA. i have a doubt, are F-16, F-18 offering radar programming codes??? i doubt.. i guess french and SAAB are offering those codes too..

and if the deal is for 200 then we should consider 70 odd MiGs, which can operate at the borders, and will accompany their elder brothers.

indian wrote:

i think this is due to american pressure ........ america will never allow india to buy sphisticated fighters & that is why they have blackmailed india to buy 200 downgraded fighters from them.....

honestly we should go for the MiG-35

i too will go for MIG-35 because of its advanced avionics(common to PAKFA), high grade composite alloy structure, multiple arm platform and stealth.

Every thing right right now depends upon how good Su 30 Mki would be near future. And how deep ToT MRCA competitor are willing to offer us.
AND if we were to induct Gripen NG for MRCA will it kill TEJAS>

MY vote goes to owing to all this and the fact that RAFALE doesn't have powerful engine nor it AESA radar impressed IAF>
MY VOTE GOES TO TYPOON

THEY ARE ATLEAST ON APAPER PROMOSING THE DEEPEST TOT>

definetely typhoons.............. they are better in manywys thanthe american f-16 and f-18 except the radar of which i am sure the world will catch up soon.......... Never trust the americans as they can do the same thing as they did in 1965 indo-pak war .!!!!

My view about MMRCA Tender and Bidders..
Leading:
Euro Fighter Typhoon.. Payload,Service ceiling,Avionics,Combat radius,Rate of Climb,'g' Protection,Engine,Thrust/Weight Ratio,Thrust Vector Control(TVC) offered
Second Option:
Dassault Rafale Payload,Avionics,Combat radius,Engine,Thrust/Weight Ratio
OR
Mig-35 AESA Radar,OLS,Thrust Vector Control(TVC),Speed(2.25 Mach),Service ceiling,Engine,Rate of Climb,Thrust/Weight Ratio
Not Suitable for MMRCA
F-16 Payload,Service ceiling,Combat radius
Waste:
Saab JAS 39 Gripen
Boeing F/A-18

only russia is offering to full ToT therefore the Mig-35 is a very lucrative option

come what may we should avoid american aircrafts at all costs , because they are going to be heavily downgraded versions since india has not signed CISMOA,

my preferences are

1> MiG-35
2> EF-2000
3> Rafale

now let's hope for the best

how much it is reasonable to compare avionics of MiG35 with EFT or Rafale?? is it comparable??